Episodes

Trans 101: When a Loved One Comes Out, What Should You Do?

When someone in your family comes out as trans, what do you actually do? Turns out “I love you, I believe you” goes a long way—but it’s also way more complicated than that. In this episode, we’re exploring why parents have the hardest time with transition, why aunts and grandmothers often step up when parents can’t, and whether families who reject ever come back around (most do!). We’ll hear from parents about those pivotal coming-out moments and the fears that kept them up at night, break down why rejection usually isn’t sudden and why extended family tends to be more accepting than you’d expect, and talk to trans people about what it’s like when your family doesn’t accept you—and how some are thriving anyway. This episode won’t sugarcoat how hard the current moment is, but it will show you that family acceptance isn’t the only path to a good life.

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TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Diana: I remember I would cry sometimes at night to my husband, not because he was transgender, but because of what would this mean for his life? Those questions. Will he have friends? Will he be safe?

[00:00:21] Ashley: That’s Diana. She’s a retired O-B-G-Y-N and mother of four, talking about her transgender son Clark. And that fear she’s describing didn’t stop her from being exactly the parent her kids needed. But that doesn’t mean it’s been easy.

Earlier this season, we talked about the science of youth transition. That episode was fundamentally about the kids. Their experiences, their agency, and their medical care. This episode is about their families. [00:01:00]

Today we’re gonna explore what it actually looks like when someone in your family comes out as trans. Not the horror stories of rejection, not the sanitized, and everyone lived happily ever after version the real messy middle. You’ll hear what families should actually do in those crucial first moments,

and why the most important advice might be to be curious. You’ll learn about why parents are uniquely invested in their children’s gender in ways that extended family isn’t, which explains why aunts, uncles, and siblings are often more accepting than you’d expect. You’ll hear about the research on how rejection usually isn’t sudden, but exists within already complex family dynamics. And you’ll hear the good news about what happens years after that struggle when most families eventually come around.

I’m Ashley Hamer Pritchard, and this is Taboo Science. The podcast that answers the questions you [00:02:00] are not allowed to ask.

[00:02:00] Diana: My oldest was seven years old when he came out. Before that, like from the age of three when we were at playgrounds, he would sometimes introduce himself as a boy to other kids. His name was very feminine, his birth name was very feminine, so he would kind of try to hide it. And at [00:03:00] the time I didn’t understand.

I thought like I had a feminist fail. So I thought he thought like somehow it was like cooler to to be a boy, or a lot of times it was because the kids were playing Star Wars and superheroes and that’s the stuff he loved. And I try to explain like I love Star Wars and I do, I love Star Wars and superheroes, so it’s not a boy thing.

You can just be yourself. Ironic. But it wasn’t until he was seven that he told us like I’m a boy in my heart and in my head.

[00:03:15] Ashley: Studies find that the siblings of transgender children are more likely to be transgender themselves, which suggests there’s a genetic component. And that ended up being true of Diana’s children. Years after Clark came out to Diana, Diana’s youngest was born, assigned female at birth, and then started showing signs that he was actually a boy. This wasn’t a matter of wanting to be like his brother. Clark was undisclosed to the rest of [00:04:00] his immediate family for the first few years, so no one else even knew about it.

But just because Diana had been through this once before doesn’t mean it was straightforward. Diana had intentionally chosen a gender neutral name when she was pregnant because she knew about the genetics at play, and at three, her youngest changed his name to something very feminine. Dina. So Diana and her husband assumed Dina was in fact a girl.

[00:04:09] Diana: And when he was four years old. I distinctly remember him brushing his teeth and saying, you keep calling me she her. Is that a girl thing? And I said, yes, she her is a girl thing. He, him is a boy thing.

And they, them is non-binary and he said, well, I’m a boy. Call me he him.

[00:04:29] Ashley: At this point. Diana was already a veteran parent of a trans kid and was even hosting a support group for other parents of trans kids. But she still questioned it.

[00:04:39] Diana: I will be really honest and a little [00:05:00] vulnerable here. Not my proudest moment, but I couldn’t believe it. I think in my head it was like, you get to four and everything’s solid, and we had, we were past four. So I would occasionally throw in a she just to see if I could get it past him and I couldn’t.

He would, at first he was like, Hey, now it’s he. And at some point he started getting upset, like it’s he. And we’d have conversations about, you know, what do you think about your name? The world might think you’re a girl because the world thinks Dina’s a girl’s name and, you know, and he is like, names are just names and I’m a boy and it’s my name.

So it’s a boy. It’s like they figure it out. So that was his thing and that is very much who he is to this day.

[00:05:26] Ashley: That laugh you heard was Joy, diana’s co-host on Transparently Speaking their podcast for parents of trans kids. Joy met Diana through her support group after Joy’s child came out around age five.

[00:05:38] Joy: I was picking the three kids up and bringing them home. [00:06:00] And from the backseat, like out of nowhere, Samantha, who’s not Samantha at the time, says, mommy, why did God make me a boy? And I was like driving. I’m like, what? I was like, what does that mean? I had no idea.

I found a support group in our city and Diana was helping to lead that support group. So I was so grateful. I joined a couple meetings, was hearing stories from other parents, and things just clicked and I was like, oh, that’s what’s going on with my kid. My kid is transgender.

[00:06:25] Diana: These are the simple [00:06:26] Ashley: stories parents tell about their kids coming out. The question from the backseat, the discussion over teeth brushing. But that’s rarely the only sign they had that their kid was transgender. Like with Diana’s son Clark, who was really soft spoken and a people pleaser most of the time.

[00:06:44] Diana: He didn’t speak [00:07:00] up at all for himself except two things. He wore a brown cowboy hat for like two years, and anytime anyone like called him a cowgirl, anybody, he would say, no, I’m a cowboy. And it was like this kid that didn’t speak up every single time would say that. Same with the Superman shirt he wore. Someone would say, oh, are you Supergirl? He’d say, no, I’m Superman. And I’d be like, what is wrong? There’s nothing wrong with being a girl.

[00:07:12] Ashley: For Joy, the signs she remembers most were when her family, she, her husband and her three boys were living in Singapore. They spent a lot of time with another expat family who had two girls. Inevitably, all of the kids ended up dressing up like princesses, and Samantha wanted to wear her dress outside of the playroom.

[00:07:33] Joy: And I just made a rule. I was like, you’re a boy, you have a penis. There’s just expectations around what you wear and how we look when we go out into the world. And I said, you can wear whatever you want in our house and when we’re playing with our friends at their house, [00:08:00] but when we go out, you have to dress this way. And I didn’t even realize at the time what I was doing.

[00:08:08] Ashley: Samantha wanted to be a princess for Halloween, and because they were outsiders in this foreign country and Joy wasn’t sure how others would react, she said no.

Joy also remembers that Samantha would wear a shirt on her head as long hair, and when she wore swim trunks, she’d cross her arms over her chest because all the girls at the pool had their tops covered.

[00:08:15] Joy: And this was all before that one question, mommy, why did God make me a boy? And so as she asked that question, and we’re in the car, I’m looking back at all these things. Like these are all pieces that you put together after the fact. That just helps confirm she knew exactly who she was the whole time and we just didn’t know how to see it or how to support her in understanding that [00:08:42] identity.

[00:08:58] Ashley: So in those first days and weeks, when a family member comes out, what should you [00:09:00] do? Stephanie Budge is a researcher and psychologist who studies trans families. You heard her on the last episode. I asked her that question.

[00:09:09] Stephanie Budge: As a theme, I think the biggest thing is to say thank you. Thank you for telling me I love you, and I believe you.

I think you can ask somebody like, just like, tell me what you need. But oftentimes people don’t actually know what they need. So that can be kind of a tough question. But I, I don’t think that there’s any harm in saying like, I’m here to follow you. When you’re ready to let me know what kinds of changes like I can make, just let me know.

Because a lot of the time, this might just be the first time they’re telling someone and they don’t know, so they just need to process it or work through it. Or they’ve been telling other people and have a lot more information for you. But I would say that basic level of I love you, thank you for telling me I’m here for you, is gonna go, you know, most of the way.

[00:09:47] Diana: Be curious. [00:10:00] Ask them what does that mean? Because a lot of times a parent hears that, or a guardian or an adult, hears that, and they have their own idea of what that means. Find out what it means to them. What is it that they want? What would they have different, [00:10:14] like is there anything that needs to be different?

[00:10:17] Ashley: Of course not every family reacts that way. Personally, the articles I’ve read and the things I’ve seen on social media gave me the impression that a lot of families, if not the majority, rejected their kids when they came out as transgender. But I’m happy to report that according to the data we have, most families are actually pretty supportive.

Of the trans people who responded to the 2022 US Trans Survey, 67% said that their immediate family was supportive and only 12% said they were unsupportive. Still, about 10% of respondents said they experienced violence or were kicked out of the house because they were transgender.

Other studies agree with the idea that most families are supportive. [00:11:00] Though Stephanie notes that some of this may come down to the kind of data researchers can gather.

[00:11:01] Stephanie Budge: The hard thing about this from a research standpoint that I think is gonna get even harder right now is that often the youth who are in situations with unsupportive families are not represented in the data. They’re either not participating because they’re afraid to participate, or you need parental consent to participate in studies if you’re not 18. Whereas when we have more supportive families, we can get more accurate data around the dynamics that are happening in those families. But it feels like we’re really missing a big chunk of information that’s happening.

[00:11:38] Ashley: I talked to some trans people whose families didn’t accept their identity. It was really painful for them.

Benny realized he [00:11:46] was transgender in the early two thousands when he was going to an all girls high school. He was a theater kid who kept getting cast in male roles and found them really comfortable.

At 15, he read an article about Brandon Tina, a [00:12:00] trans man who was murdered in a hate crime in 1993, and whose story is the basis for the movie Boys Don’t Cry. That was his first introduction to the existence of trans men, and he soon began to identify as a man himself. Though I should note that he now identifies as trans-masculine non-binary.

At any rate, he hadn’t yet come out to his parents as trans when he moved out at 17.

[00:12:24] Benny: I identified as a lesbian then, so, I was out in that way, which like had some tension in my home. But I also struggled socially, just enormously as a teenager, and struggled with my parents.

We just fought about everything. And so, you know, I was placed in, um, some therapeutic environments and I spent some time in the troubled teen industry.

[00:12:43] Ashley: The troubled teen industry is a network of residential programs for struggling teenagers aimed at improving their behavior. Stuff like boarding schools, wilderness programs, and boot camps kids are sent to after they’re expelled from too many schools. They’re unregulated, they’re riddled with abuse, [00:13:00] and they’re especially bad for L-G-B-T-Q youth.

When one of those organizations kicked Benny out, his parents decided to rent him a room in a nearby city for a few months until he turned 18.

[00:13:12] Benny: So that was enough time for me to kind of figure out how to work temp jobs, that kind of thing. Um, but it left me quite vulnerable. There were times where I was living in places that I would not want my own children to end up living. You know, renting a room in a house with a drug dealer, things like that, that were really rough. But I figured out ways to make it.

[00:13:30] Ashley: So that was the context when Benny finally told his parents he was trans.

[00:13:35] Benny: They didn’t handle it great, to be pretty honest. Like, my parents have always loved me and supported me in the ways that they knew how, but this was so far outside of their experience. And they are people who cared, more in the past, they’ve grown a lot, uh, they cared more about what other people were going to think, and especially what other people were gonna think of me and what that would mean about my access to the world. Uh, and that’s really understandable, right? They were scared of what, how [00:14:00] the world was gonna treat me.

The solution to that is not, not transitioning. But that is the viewpoint that they had when I was young. But they didn’t try very hard to stop me. They also didn’t use my name and didn’t use pronouns other than she her until 10 years after I began my transition.

[00:14:19] Ashley: I wanted to introduce you to Benny’s story because it illustrates two really common themes in the families of trans kids. One is a parent’s rejection out of fear over how the world will treat their kid. Here’s Diana.

[00:14:32] Diana: That is a very common reaction and I think they’re so blinded by the fear. I think that very common thoughts are like, who’s gonna love them? Who’s gonna be their friends? Are they gonna be safe?

I get it for those parents. And I think they just don’t realize that A, that’s not gonna change anything. Like I think they think like if I reject it, it won’t happen. I just have to put my foot down and it won’t happen. [00:15:00]

And what they don’t see is they’re doing more harm than the harm that they’re afraid of.

That doesn’t mean I didn’t have fear. Like once Clark came out, it made sense. And I remember I would cry sometimes at night to my husband, not because he was transgender, but because of what would this mean for his life?

Those questions. Will he have friends? Will he be safe? And my husband always accepting, just had a good sense of humor about it. And he was like, imagine this college application. You know, he’s in like, you know, mid-westerner, transgender, half Mexican, like it’s amazing.

[00:15:43] Ashley: The second common theme in Benny’s story is preexisting family conflict. That’s what I learned from Amy Stone, a professor of sociology at Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas. They’re the lead author on a paper about the dynamics at play when a family rejects a family member’s [00:16:00] gender identity, something they call refusing gender.

[00:16:04] Amy Stone: One of the things that we noticed was that almost everyone, like all but one person who described these like really challenging experiences with refusing gender, also had really complex histories with their family. They had other things that had already been happening. They had been like physically punished a lot as a child. They had a parent with mental illness, right, who was like super invalidating often. They had a lot of negative experiences growing up, and so it was often kind of embedded within other kinds of violence.

And it was rarely that people were like, yeah, my parents super loving and accepting. I had a wonderful childhood, and like the minute I transitioned, all of a sudden they were just like awful.

Right. Sometimes those parents would have like a, an initial poor reaction right when the person came out, but it wasn’t usually something that persisted.

[00:16:57] Ashley: The messages people get from the media also play a role in a family’s acceptance. [00:17:00] And Stephanie Budge told me there’s no way to know if the data on family acceptance will hold during what’s really an unprecedented time for misinformation.

Jamie is a 40-year-old trans woman who just came out to her parents a few years ago, and conservative media is one reason it all kind of fell apart. First she told her mom.

[00:17:26] Jamie Walkenhauer: I had told her years ago that I was gay, and she was like, well, you know, you can never tell your father, right? Like, okay, whatever. But I told her and she was just like, didn’t really understand the difference.

And then like, a week later, I sent my dad a really long text and told him. The most interesting thing, at least to me at the beginning is, you know, I had another phone call with my mom. Like, Hey, just, you know, do some reading, ask me questions, she did none of that. Except the only question that she had for me was like, well, what about the detransitioners? [00:18:00] Like she knew what they were, but then in the same breath asked me like, so what’s a drag queen? I was like, you don’t know what a drag queen is, but you know the term detransitioner. Gee, I wonder what your media diet has been.

[00:18:17] Ashley: They kept the peace for a few years, though Jamie’s parents weren’t exactly accepting. They feigned ignorance that Jamie had ever told them anything about her transition, and she had to keep reminding them.

[00:18:28] Jamie Walkenhauer: At some point during the last election cycle when that whole thing kind of turned, around the, she’s for they them ad. Hearing like every day from their news outlet of choice that like trans people are mentally ill or child molesters or whatever. They’ve just turned on me. So a couple weeks ago, I got into an [00:19:00] argument with my mom. They told me God was going to judge me and, uh, I was like, okay, well we’re done. And so we are no longer speaking. I’m sure I will get a call or text when one of them is in the hospital for something. But outside of that, I think going no contact was the last, I mean, I, I’ve been trying, for years. To get them to come around even a little bit, and they just wouldn’t. They kept thinking that, like,

not that like this was a phase, but that like they, they just assumed that people would treat me so horribly that I would be like, okay, no, I made a big mistake. Can I move back home or something? And so telling them that like, no, I haven’t, as far as I know, lost a single friend. I’m actually in two healthy relationships right now. I thought they [00:20:00] would be happy for me, and it was like visibly upsetting to them that people were being nice to me.

[00:20:06] Ashley: When we come back, we’re talking about why extended family members are often more accepting than parents. What happens when families do eventually come around, and what you can actually do to support a trans family member. Stay tuned.

Amy told me that parents often have the hardest time with their child’s [00:20:28] transition.

[00:20:28] Amy Stone: So Brandon Robinson and I wrote a piece called Trans Family Systems Theory about like why parents may be particularly kind of the most invested in their children’s gender of like all the family members, like more invested in siblings, more invested often than grandparents and aunts. Not always. It’s like there’s a lot of cultural variation here.

But why are parents so invested? And there are some sociological theories that some of that investment is that parents see it as like a reflection of their work, right, of their parenting. [00:21:00] And men in families like fathers, often see it as a reflection of their own gender, right?

That if their boy child is not manly enough that it reflects back on like the father’s gender. And we just don’t see that in the same way from like aunts. Their nieces or nephews behavior may have no reflection back on them.

Parents also have to be kind of accountable for their kids’ gender to a lot of like different institutions like school, the police, to other relatives, right?

So there’s ways that they may be just more like deeply invested in gender conformity in their children or in their children being cisgender and their children, like keeping the name that the parents gave them, right? Or keeping the gender expression as they were dressed when they were little, right back when parents did it for them.

[00:21:48] Ashley: When parents can’t accept, trans youth often end up leaving home. Some estimates suggest that 40% of unhoused youth are L-G-B-T-Q, [00:22:00] but many avoid that fate because of extended family.

[00:22:00] Amy Stone: What we found is that, for youth who weren’t living with parents, right? These are pretty young youth, 16 to 19 years old, if they weren’t living with parents, they’re usually living with an aunt, a grandmother, or an older sister. Sometimes an uncle for a little while, right? Sometimes a grandfather for a little while, but they often were living with an aunt, a grandmother. or a big sister. Because it was just a more affirming environment and youth would often leave super unaffirming environments, right? So environments where like, oh, my gender is being refused. Sometimes they would opt to leave because that was just so painful on its own. Their first call was usually to do, I have an aunt who is supportive. Do I have a grandmother who maybe doesn’t quite get it, right? But it’s a little more acceptable with grandparents, they’re older, they have generational differences, right?

They try, right? But they often are very less invested in kids’ gender. So they often will go there.

[00:22:57] Ashley: Siblings also tend to be more reliable allies than parents. [00:23:00] Here’s Stephanie Budge again.

[00:23:03] Stephanie Budge: Siblings are often more supportive than even caregivers are, just because I think that there is a cultural tide and shift and, or was one, around younger people having a more nuanced understanding of gender, and therefore being more accepting.

Siblings mainly matter in this instance if they’re not being affirming. And of course it matters if siblings are being affirming. But I think in general, some of that approval, um, and needed approval mostly is needed to come from the caregivers because they’re the ones who need to take the you to their appointments and need to do all the advocating through school systems and different things like that.

Whereas siblings, you know, the main support that’s needed is just like, believe me.

[00:23:42] Ashley: But here’s the good news. Just because parents or family members reject someone’s identity at first, [00:23:50] doesn’t mean they’ll reject it forever.

[00:23:49] Stephanie Budge: Generally over time families do become more supportive. [00:24:00] Um, that’s just what we have for the data. That is true for LGBT people in general.

[00:24:06] Ashley: That’s often the simple result of getting used to the idea. They overcome the shock of what this means for them and their relationship with the person. They learn a bit more.

They figure out that the world isn’t ending, and their family member is still the same person they were. That’s what happened with Benny’s parents.

[00:24:23] Benny: They didn’t use my name and didn’t use pronouns other than she her until 10 years after I began my transition. But eventually they did. And they came around and at this point now, more than 20 years later, they are some of my biggest supporters, they are involved with my family. We see each other every couple of weeks. I adore them. My dad is the kind of person I want to be in the world, but some of that was about me maturing and a lot of it was about their growth over time.

They’ve politically changed a lot. They’ve just like chosen to learn a lot about the world and about me, and I’m so grateful for that.

[00:24:59] Ashley: And it’s not just [00:25:00] parents who can come around. Other relatives who react badly can have a change of heart too. Diana had that experience with her own mom, the grandmother of her children.

[00:25:10] Diana: Everyone was great, except my mom initially. She stopped talking to us for six months.

And with Dina, she stopped talking to me again for some months, again, and had a little bit harsher things to say. Even though in that time, seven years had gone by with Clark, even though, and, and she loves and accepts Clark and even doesn’t advocate for him, but advocates for the community in that. Not the most knowledgeable way, but still cares. I was shocked that she didn’t speak to me again for um, months and she [00:25:51] eventually came around [00:26:00]

[00:26:00] Ashley: But not everyone does. And in those situations, chosen family is what’s important. Something I didn’t totally understand until I spoke to lots and lots of trans people is how vital community is in their lives.

Obviously having community is good for everyone. You can call someone to move a couch or watch your kids or come to your barbecue, but it takes on a different importance when it’s about something as vital as finding a place to stay when you’re kicked out, or being able to raise money for a medical treatment, or even just knowing others who have experienced this thing that less than 1% of the population ever has.

And for trans people, it’s harder to find that community.

[00:26:33] Amy Stone: For a lot of other identities that we have, like our social class, which like our family may have similar social class, we may live in a neighborhood with people from the same social class, our race or ethnicity, where like we may very likely have family members who have the same race or ethnicity. We might live in a neighborhood or go to schools with other people. So we have an experience of that communal connection around identity.

L-G-B-T-Q people kind of have to go outta their way a little bit more sometimes to make those, [00:27:00] right. To find other people who have similar experiences and, people that they can rely on.

I think it’s also a very particular kind of family trauma for LGBTQ people, this kind of invalidation and rejection, right. That we typically don’t get around other social identities.

[00:27:20] Ashley: For Jamie who hasn’t had much time to wait and see if her parents will come around, friends and romantic partners are her support system, and for now she’s happy that her parents invalidation is no longer a part of her life.

[00:27:34] Jamie Walkenhauer: I am so much more confident in like, almost everything that I do. I don’t worry about like saying the wrong thing or like. I used, I just used to get so in my head about every little thing, like I had to act just so all the time, and was always like a total, just like a shrinking [00:27:55] violet.

[00:28:00] Ashley: And for the parents who are accepting, who do say, I love you, I believe you. How can I help? Life eventually just gets back to normal.

[00:28:02] Diana: I remember there was somebody who told me it was like a grandmother of a [00:29:00] transgender girl that I got in contact with. And I remember her saying, there’ll be a day you won’t think about it all the time.

Because like when Clark first transitioned, it’s all I thought about all day long of like, is he safe? Like I have to send him to school. I’m like, is he safe? What else could I be doing? Da da. I can’t believe this. What is life gonna look like? She’s like, there’ll be a day where you don’t even think about it. And I don’t think that was helpful, to be honest at the time. So I rarely say that to people. And there does come a day where it’s like. When people are like, how did Dina not know he had an older brother who’s transgender? I’m like, what do you think we talk about all day? Like we’re talking about sports and school and friends and you know what’s going on in pop culture and this TV show.

Like, we’re not talking about that. That’s why.

And I also think the journey is beautiful. To see somebody be their true self is the most beautiful thing, whatever that means. Is the most beautiful thing you can see. And you get taken along that journey too, in the sense of you begin [00:30:00] to realize, who am I and who is my true self? And I think the whole family grows, not just only in that, but also I see all of us being more empathetic, less judgmental towards others and towards differences. And so there’s, yes, I’m not diminishing fears. Those are valid, but there’s [00:29:41] also so much beauty on this journey too.

[00:30:00] Ashley: So if you have a trans family member and you want to support them, what can you do? Especially for aunts, uncles, grandparents, and distant relatives who don’t see them every day. It might feel like the answer is not a lot, but even simple words of support can go a long way.

[00:30:00] Amy Stone: I think that relatives need to take more seriously just how important they are. For some of the youth in our study who really did feel uncomfortable in their parents’ home, they often talked about how, I know that if something happened, I know that my aunt would take me [00:31:00] in. And their aunt never had to take them in. Right. But just knowing that someone had their back. Having people tell them that or express that to them was really, really important. And so even just telling someone like, Hey, you can come to me, right?

If anything goes wrong, I’ll help. You know, I, you can stay with me or I can help you find someplace to stay, right? Sometimes just knowing that there was something that could be supportive. You may not end up needing it, but just knowing that it’s there is actually very, very important.

[00:31:30] Ashley: And simply by standing up for your own family member, in a way, you’re standing with transgender people everywhere.

[00:31:37] Diana: I think you have to be some form of advocate and I [00:32:00] say it cautiously because I think sometimes when we hear that word, we think like, oh, grandstand, you know, or in the public eye and not necessarily. You have to be an advocate every time you go to a healthcare office for your child. You have to be an advocate every time they go to school. You have to be an advocate with family, and you can decide how much of an advocate.

Every time we touch another life. Like it doesn’t have to be real big in the public’s eye, but every time we tell our story, every time people get to know us, it’s a form of advocacy. I don’t think that means we have to share every detail of our lives or their lives.

And I don’t without permission, but I think just seeing like, oh, there’s nothing strange going on here. And in fact, when Clark graduated from high school, he got a note. One of his classmates sent him a note and thanked him. Sorry. I [00:32:24] thanked him for all he had taught him about being a good person and true to himself. And I don’t think Clark ever realizes [00:33:00] impact, like we’ve done a good job of just raising him to have a childhood, and I don’t think he realized all the impact he had on so many people. Sorry.

[00:33:03] Joy: I also wanna say that I think being an advocate or an ally is a space we’re in and why we do our podcast. And in most cases, that’s not public. I can’t be the advocate and the ally I really want to be because my child is undisclosed. If my child identifies as a girl, not even as transgender. And she’s made a choice that she doesn’t want people to know she’s transgender. I can’t tell other people that she’s transgender and that I’m a mom of a transgender kid and be the advocate and ally that I want to be. So that’s been a challenge for me personally in terms of the impact I’d like to be making in terms of helping to educate people or share our story. ‘Cause my kid’s amazing, right? And everybody should know that transgender kids are amazing, [00:34:00] and right now being transgender is like a terrifying place to be.

[00:34:05] Ashley: Of course, all this advice to be curious, say, I love you, give it time. It comes with a caveat. When I asked Joy what she’d say to parents just starting this journey right now, in this political moment. She was honest.

[00:34:19] Joy: I think of parents who might just be starting this journey now amidst this political environment, and I don’t have any real positive words to share with them.

Like I don’t, I don’t know what I would tell them in terms of how to put a positive spin on it, because there’s so much being required to show up and prioritize wellness of your kid and question what’s out in the media and still be okay and be confident in your choices and all the things. It’s, it’s a really hard space, I could imagine, to be in right now.

[00:34:57] Ashley: And remember what Stephanie Budge told me. [00:35:00] She’s not sure if the data on families becoming more accepting over time will hold given how much misinformation is being produced right now.

But here’s what I do know. Benny’s parents came around after 10 years, even in the early two thousands when being trans was way less understood than it is today.

[00:35:37] Diana’s mom came around twice. Families that truly want to support their trans loved ones find a way even when it’s hard.

And for those whose families don’t come around? Jamie is thriving. More confident, more herself, surrounded by people who see her for who she really is.

Family acceptance isn’t the only path to a good life.

What Diana said about beauty still stands. What Joy said about the current moment does too. Both things are true. This is hard, and there’s also so much possibility for growth, for connection, for becoming more fully yourself, whether you are the trans person coming [00:36:00] out or the family member learning to see them clearly for the first time.

[00:36:04] Ashley: Thank you so much to Diana and Joy. If you wanna check out their podcast for parents of trans kids, it’s Transparently Speaking. I’ll link to it in the show notes. Thank you also to Stephanie Budge, Benny and Jamie for talking to me.

Taboo Science is written and produced by me, Ashley Hamer Pritchard. Our sensitivity reader is Newton Schottelkotte The theme was by Danny Lopatka of DLC Music. Episode music is from Epidemic Sound.

On the next episode, what does dating look like when you have to calculate, not just will they text back, but will I be safe if they find out I’m trans? We’re exploring dating while trans with author Julia Serano. I hope you tune in. I won’t tell anyone.